Curse

Kaguya · Jul 27, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel of Cthulhu

I dont understand why everyone is so indignant about this... how is GW supposed to sustain itself without monthly fees? If you love the game so much, and clearly we all do, why are we so against supporting it? Seems to me some have us have been playing for so long we think we're ENTITLED to it...

Someone missed the ads and other material regarding the Guild Wars business model

They don't need monthly fees, they live by the money from selling expansions, 1 every 6 months, 50$/6 = 8.33$ a month.

Digital Bath · Jul 27, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

Someone missed the ads and other material regarding the Guild Wars business model

They don't need monthly fees, they live by the money from selling expansions, 1 every 6 months, 50$/6 = 8.33$ a month.

This is going on the assumption that it costs $50 flat per 6 months. A more realistic version, imo, would be as such:

GW:P CE = $75.76 (after 8.25%) GW:P = $54.11 (after 8.25% sales tax in Tx)
GW:F CE = $75.76 (after 8.25%) GW: F = $54.11 (after 8.25% sales tax in Tx)
CE Total = $151.53 Non CE Total = $108.23

The non CE are rounded to the precise amount that I paid for each box (and relatively close to what everyone else paid if they got the game the day/week/even month after it came out. (Prices taken from ebgames)http://www.ebgames.com/search.asp?so...=0&find=Search These should be the relative price per CE and per non CE.

Let's add in 1 or 2 character slots. I figure, the majority of people that buy a character slot will buy one or two, with the % dropping off from there.

CE Total + 1 character slot = $162.34
Total/Month = $13.53
CE Total + 2 character slots = $173.16
Total/Month = $14.43
Non CE Total + 1 character slot = $119.04
Total/Month = $9.92
Non CE Total + 2 character slots = $129.86
Total/Month = $10.82

People must keep in mind that these prices and taxes are taken from the sales tax within Tx and every state has their own deal going on. What this does show is that if you are the die hard fan buying 1-2 character slots along with the CE, you are paying roughly the same amount per month for FFXI or WoW. For the less die hard gamer, you are paying for older MMO's yet still around the FFXI fee. I believe that ANet is counting on their die hard fan base to be the ones that are going to buy the majority of the extra character slots, with the less die hard buying character slots sporadically. These prices are just for 1 or 2 additional character slots, now imagine what would happen if ANet introduced more items you can buy within the game store. The price would easily hit the same amount as actual MMO's on the market, and in some cases, exceed their prices.

There are things to keep in mind honestly. If the fanbase is going to be buying trivial updates that aren't needed to be competitive, but are something that ANet knows the fan is going to want to buy because of the seductiveness, pricing issues compared to the amount of labor put in by ANet are sure to result.

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Nonetheless, Kaguya, I'm sure their business model didn't include supporting 32 characters per player with several million active players. The store, is therefore, a really, really good idea. Besides which, I'd really love a GW coffee mug.

Kaguya · Jul 27, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Bath

blaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Nonetheless, Kaguya, I'm sure their business model didn't include supporting 32 characters per player with several million active players.

I wasn't saying that the shop is a bad idea, or buying slots is a bad idea, or there was anything bad about the whole thing. I was among one of them asking for these buyable slots and I'm happy to have them.

I was more or less just adressing Angel of Cthulhu's "GW can't go on without this shop!!1" statement. They've had to manage their financing and calculate that they can keep the business profitable even without monthly fees, just with the revenue from individual chapter sales. The shop is all extra revenue for them, and extra stuff we've been asking for us for extra fee.

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

I was more or less just adressing Angel of Cthulhu's "GW can't go on without this shop!!1" statement. They've had to manage their financing and calculate that they can keep the business profitable even without monthly fees, just with the revenue from individual chapter sales. The shop is all extra revenue for them, and extra stuff we've been asking for us for extra fee.

lol, my apologies. Given some of the posts in this thread though, it is easy to mistake the comment for a "they make money from selling expansions and shouldn't charge for anything else."

Digital Bath · Jul 27, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

The thing is, if they are going to be charging roughly the same amount per month as actual MMO's, then why not just give the player base all these extra items for free? Why are you going to charge the player base for something that you could easily put into the game for free especially after it was stated that this is a "free to play" game? Sure, the game remains "free to play," but there are now limitations being added into the mix. What is all this extra revenue going towards? "It's going towards more items and things that we have been wanting in game for the longest time for ANet to develop" is not a good argument to use as the cycle of charging for "fluff" will continue. : /

silv3rr · Jul 27, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Hmm... what really bothers me is WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO IMPLEMENT THE NEW EMBLEMSSSSSS

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

The thing is, if they are going to be charging roughly the same amount per month as actual MMO's, then why not just give the player base all these extra items for free? Why are you going to charge the player base for something that you could easily put into the game for free especially after it was stated that this is a "free to play" game? Sure, the game remains "free to play," but there are now limitations being added into the mix. What is all this extra revenue going towards? "It's going towards more items and things that we have been wanting in game for the longest time for ANet to develop" is not a good argument to use as the cycle of charging for "fluff" will continue. : /

Actually ingames items are going to be a big NO in the store, Gaile has already said that. The only exceptions might be the Coke-play items, and some of the Asian pre-order items.

There is absolutely no reason for them to offer character slots for free. We don't NEED character slots for all professions, we simply would LIKE them. Anet told us that it wouldn't happen, but the idea of making money off it changed their mind, and why not? We are willing to pay, and they are willing to let us pay for just a little piece of coding that will help make our gaming life easier. I reiterate, they are under no obligation to give us slots at all.

Features, once again, I believe have been addressed by Gaile as a NO-NO too. So we aren't going to have to pay for the new trade system, or stylist.

Kaguya · Jul 27, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Bath

The thing is, if they are going to be charging roughly the same amount per month as actual MMO's, then why not just give the player base all these extra items for free? /

Keyword here is extra. Chapters come with content, pair of new slots and other junk. If you want to have 20 char slots, that's all extra service, thus it can be bought. Giving out everyone extra 10 slots for free guarantees that everyone gets 10 slots. Many of them will use up all the slots, for mules if nothing else. All those mules and other new charas take amount of data on the server. Having suddenly doubled the amount of possible charas, and no extra revenue for doing so probably will make the database server squeal. They'd need to upgrade the said server, but don't have the funds for it since they gave out stuff for free.

It's not very uncommon practise either, EVE Online charges a monthly fee, but it has several buyable functions for the accounts. Transferring charas between accounts, buying 2nd account for cheaper price, renaming charas, and similar, all those services are paid for. Giving all that stuff free, would again make "everyone" use them, thus add to the server workload, and cause a need to upgrade the servers. Which you necessarily have the money for.

Irongate · Jul 27, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel of Cthulhu

I dont understand why everyone is so indignant about this... how is GW supposed to sustain itself without monthly fees? If you love the game so much, and clearly we all do, why are we so against supporting it? Seems to me some have us have been playing for so long we think we're ENTITLED to it...

AS ABOVE READ THE THREAD!!! People are gagging to give Anet money for more chars!!! READ people READ!!!

Irongate · Jul 27, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Bath

The non CE are rounded to the precise amount...

lol v funny

goober1973 · Jul 27, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polgara Darshiva

There is access in Europe. Cost is apparently €8.99 / slot.

Eh, why are we paying more? I understand that exchange rates can fluctuate wildly from day to day, so why not a fixed worldwide charge? At the current rate this means we're paying over €1 more than the american price and while it's not much of a difference let me ask you this: if americans on the west coast were being charged $10 and those on the east coast were being charged $11 would anyone complain?

Ahh, but then I still have territory switches left

Lady Lozza · Jul 27, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

lol, actually goober, I'd be tempted to switch districts to get the $US prices, as it would be cheaper for me to do so as well. Since I've only change twice, I'd have enough to go there and back again

Gonzo · Jul 27, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

I was wondering about this very subject in guild chat yesterday. It would be a wise move if they would do it before the preview weekend, then people with 6 pve can buy a pvp slot. I hope I'm right, because I would like an extra slot. Even though I can always delete my newly made level 1 presearing thing.

[KotL]Mjolnir · Jul 27, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober1973

Eh, why are we paying more? I understand that exchange rates can fluctuate wildly from day to day, so why not a fixed worldwide charge? At the current rate this means we're paying over €1 more than the american price and while it's not much of a difference let me ask you this: if americans on the west coast were being charged $10 and those on the east coast were being charged $11 would anyone complain?

Ahh, but then I still have territory switches left

Now I'm not great at maths but I did a little number crunching and its not just a little difference...

Americans paying £5.40 per slot
UK paying £6.15 per slot

That means for every 8 slots we buy us Brits are paying for 9 american slots and only getting 8, sigh Britain is once again being shafted by Americans

Its bad enough we pay VAT at least make it a fair price to all.

Ashleigh McMahon · Jul 27, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

According to Gaile, things as such should not be sold:

Will you ever need to buy something to remain competitive or to have a level playing field? No, never.

And I hope so, too. Unbalancing games so people with lots of money irl can take advantages, would suck.

I wouldn't mind the Store sellingpre-order items as such, but I'd hate it too sell ectoplasms, runes, skills, ect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Bath

Hmmm, why does it seem like GW has now become another one of those free online games you can download (like FlyFF, Conquer, etc) where it is free to play the game, but you can buy items to supplement your game and characters.

I can see it now.

For the low low price of $49.99 (USD), 100 ectoplasms can be yours. Get them today while the buying is hot. Order more than $100.00 (USD) worth of items and apparel, and get a 15% discount and 15 free Obsidian Shards.

goober1973 · Jul 27, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by [KotL]Mjolnir

Now I'm not great at maths but I did a little number crunching and its not just a little difference...

Americans paying £5.40 per slot
UK paying £6.15 per slot

That means for every 8 slots we buy us Brits are paying for 9 american slots and only getting 8, sigh Britain is once again being shafted by Americans

I wasn't intending it to be a "them shafting us" issue (and it's not just Britain - say it with me E..u..r..o..p..e) It just seems that this rounding off of prices usually leans in favor of the home country and I was just suggesting a fixed worldwide price. Personally I wouldn't be offended to see a $ symbol while paying for this if it meant that everyone was paying the same price for the same feature.

Ashleigh McMahon · Jul 27, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

I've read this somewhere else:

Originally Posted by Scutilla on GWOnline
Gaile came to Shing Jea Monastery this evening to talk about character slots, among other things. Here're some of the highlights. (I wasn't there for the whole thing, and she was still talking when I left, so feel free to post anything I missed.)

* Character slots are coming "VERY soon". Players will be able to purchase up to 26 character slots on top of what they recieve for merging chapters. They will be purchasable in-game. Slots are $9.99 each in the U.S. (no word on Europe cost), are purchased with a CC (I assume it's credit card and not candy cane...) and are permanent regardless of what chapters you buy/merge.
* No additional character slots for the upcoming PvP Preview weekend. (The usual "most people who want to participate will already have a PvP slot" explanation.) Remember to take items off Nightfall chars before the weekend ends, since they will be locked until release.
* Reconnects, saved skill sets: On the to-do list, no time frame.
* Selling storage options for RL money, in-game voice chat, game cards for purchasing character slots, raising gold limit in trade window: Good ideas.
* Merchant buybacks, SF-sized free updates: Probably not.
* Alternative access to Elite Missions, Assassin/Ritualist content in Nightfall: Will have to ask.
* Gaile's going to stop making her Triple Chocolate Brownies of Death if the dev team doesn't add a use for gems one of these days Wink
* Gaile's Nightfall profession pick: The Paragon, because she likes their outfits.
* No news on Nightfall, it's a little early to start talking specifics.
* Nightfall will not have a monthly fee, it will probably be similar in price to Factions and Prophecies.
* We WILL get character slots with Nightfall- 4 if unlinked, 2 if linked, same as Factions.
* Nightfall is "Specifically designed to appeal to RPGers." Factions had a significant focus on PvP, so Nightfall will have a significant focus on PvE Very Happy That said, there will be a new PvP game mechanic that will blow the socks off PvPers (see the mention of Hero vs. Hero battles, here).
* Random fact: ANet had BBQ yesterday.
* Random Gaile quote of the day: "Please, please, don't uppercase. The eyes, they burn!
-

When she says "* Selling storage options for RL money, in-game voice chat, game cards for purchasing character slots, raising gold limit in trade window: Good ideas." Does she mean you have to BUY ingame voice chat and pay for the raised gold limit? That would suck so much.

Also this sounds like you need to pay for updates, ie: in game voice chat, more elite mission access points, the ability to bring ritualists and assasins into Nightfall. Is this all true, you will need to pay for these type of things? If not, please correct me as my matter of understanding is usually pretty dumb

[KotL]Mjolnir · Jul 27, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober1973

I wasn't intending it to be a "them shafting us" issue (and it's not just Britain - say it with me E..u..r..o..p..e) It just seems that this rounding off of prices usually leans in favor of the home country and I was just suggesting a fixed worldwide price. Personally I wouldn't be offended to see a $ symbol while paying for this if it meant that everyone was paying the same price for the same feature.

I used Pounds because its the currency I use and I didn't check any other currency because I wouldn't have know how accurate my sums were. I also can't speak on behalf of Europe and I won't, I speaking on my behalf of myself. I was merely highlighting the fact that I would be paying more than other people and its not just a small difference when you buy multiply slots. I don't care what currency I pay as long as I get the same for my money that everyone else does. Don't misinterpret this as a rant against ArenaNet, I am merely stating that were paying more when we shouldn't have to.

Cassandra · Jul 27, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober1973

Eh, why are we paying more? I understand that exchange rates can fluctuate wildly from day to day, so why not a fixed worldwide charge? At the current rate this means we're paying over €1 more than the american price and while it's not much of a difference let me ask you this: if americans on the west coast were being charged $10 and those on the east coast were being charged $11 would anyone complain?

Ahh, but then I still have territory switches left

Did you know that, when Factions came out, you could buy it on NCSoft official online store, and select if you wanted the US one (US server) or Euro one (Euro server)? Fact is, prices were based on the official launch prices in the two continents, so if you decided to buy the American version and pay in euros, you would actually end up paying 5 € less than the euro version.

Is it some sort of Internet Magik? O.o

Regarding the subject of the thread: I really really dislike this new Store. I read Gaile's comment that name could be an example of service offered.

I don't want this store to become the next step in not doing things right...

I can see development going towards
Developer 1: "Hey guys this feature I have imagined is great for the fun factor, it will just be a little tricky to implement, but with some work..."
Developer 2: "Oh wait, wth, it's not a game-balance issue. Just make people pay for that."
Developer 3: "Even better! Make it available temporarily, so that ppl will see how nice it is"
Developer 2: "U n00b! We'll make a watered down version publicly available (a stylist changer with limited options, some minigames with limited prizes and games) and have the real thing available at store."
Developer 1: "Yay! Let's make some title linked to it, so more people will get caught!"
*developers start updating productions notes for Ch. X